Does Valorant Have It’s Own GOATS Problem │ VALORANTyoutubeまとめサイト

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コメント（142件）

DuSeifert より:

10月 31, 2022 3:56 pm

In a perfect world, all agents would be balanced, but unfortunately that’s not how it works, maps geometry influences a lot on agent comps, like icebox, rn the meta is no duelist, so people run double initiator but they also run double sentinel with sage and chamber/kj, pearl is looking like a double controler with viper and astra. So to finish my point here, all initiators are strong, but maps definitely have a big influence

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Breezeless_ より:

10月 31, 2022 3:57 pm

initiators are also extremely versatile, all of them works on almost every map because of how valuable their utility are despite one being better than the others on some maps. Half of them also have a low priority to stay alive thus being better at entry fragging than controller for example. But I don’t think valorant is going to be as insane as GOATS for now since they don’t render any role useless, before the nerfs to Kay/o and Skye, then I’d definitely agree to some point since they heavily overshadowed flash duelists. If a role were to do what Chamber does to the sentinels role, then yeah we have a valorant version of GOATS

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A723 0 より:

10月 31, 2022 3:58 pm

I am an overwatch player In my opinion a goat problem happens when only 5-7 agents are usable and the other agents are completely unusable in all maps.

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Note より:

10月 31, 2022 4:00 pm

we need pre nerf cypher back, GUN CAM!!

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B Chu より:

10月 31, 2022 4:01 pm

I noticed this a month ago but I don’t think it’s a problem as long as they keep non-info initiators fair, if kay-o was unquestionably the best agent in The game and then breach was still good, you would also need an info initiator on haven, and at that point it’s becoming an issue as you’re cutting a core part if your team because of how strong initiators are

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Danny boy より:

10月 31, 2022 4:03 pm

I think buffing duelists would be the way to fix this if it’s a problem, which they kinda did recently with all the flash changes. So we’ll have to see what that does to the meta. I used to be a fan of overwatch and played at high skill rank and the draining part was no one actually died in neutral fights unless they were hilariously out of position without team support. It was basically just two teams fighting for ults and dumping them on top of each other, whoever got ults first one. No real mechanically rewarding fights for the most part.

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Jake Lee より:

10月 31, 2022 4:20 pm

In Overwatch GOAT meta, out of 6 players, you MUST run 3 tanks and 3 supports on every single map. The idea was that the 3 tanks would be enough damage AND enough stall power and obviously be tanky (and only 3 supports would be able to sustain). Thus, OW’s offense/defense characters (analogous to duelists/sentinels) were made obsolete and only 2 classes were picked.

However, the Initiator stack is only on certain maps like Ascent/Breeze/Haven/maybe Pearl that rely significantly on Initiators to hold and break onto site, which could be considered more of a stylistic choice than a necessity, though data could prove me wrong. So in my opinion, it’s not a super big problem. I think the real issue is 5 players with only 4 roles and Initiator is just the all-around value pick because they’re guaranteed to be strong on either side (since Duelist/Sentinel is more T/CT and 2 Controllers might not be necessary). If there were 6 players, I think we would see a LOT more double Controller or double Sentinel comps alongside double Initiator.

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Foopy Goopy より:

10月 31, 2022 4:21 pm

My problem is that initiators are supposed to be secondary entry’s basically, depending on abilities. Kay/O, Breach, and Skye are all able to entry themselves in, with the duelist behind. A pair of Phoenix and Kay/O is so broken. I feel on every team, we can see the KayO entry first instead of like, the Jett. I dont know if it that makes sense. I definitely feel the other classes are very hindered, also due to how the maps are set up. KJ and Cypher are so… bad. Chamber is so insanely OP it’s unreal. Smokes are balanced except Omen, I feel he’s a little bad just cause only 2 smokes with 45 second recharge time. I’d love to see some major meta changes before Sao Paulo because if it’s the same old same old, it’ll get boring.

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daehkcid99 より:

10月 31, 2022 4:25 pm

Honestly I think the reason double initiator is so prevalent is because it’s the only class that’s split down the middle with two sub-roles, that being intel gathering and flashing, with crossover between the two generally being limited to an ability or two. Tbh I don’t think we need to worry too much. Teams will always need smokes, need an entry and need some kinda site denial

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Craft_Warrior1 より:

10月 31, 2022 4:40 pm

My assumption was that there just isn’t space in a team comp to add anything else. You have your controller and flank watch sentinel, then you have your dive duelist, and the info initiator. But you still need flashes, since the dive duelist doesn’t provide that, so you run skye or kayo. (I’m not well versed in the meta though, so feel free to correct me if this is wrong)

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LemonJOe より:

10月 31, 2022 4:43 pm

well said

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Trafalgar Law より:

10月 31, 2022 5:06 pm

I don’t think it’s a problem, for a couple of reasons.
1) Initiators can be split into 2 functions: AOE team oriented CC and vision. Every initiator has some distribution of these:
Sova: 80% vision. Fade: 70% vision (also a lot of cc which is why she’s so strong). Skye: 80% vision. Breach: 5% vision. Kayo: 20% vision. If you split into these 2 functions, it makes sense to have 2 to get 100% of each.
2) There’s still solid variety in how these initiators play. How theyre played against, how they feel to play.
3) You will always have 100% one controller, almost never more and never less. Same for sentinel: the ability of watching flanks and smokes only need 1 generally, but are essential. This only leaves the broad initiator category and duelists. In comp the team focused initiators are better, in solo play the more self reliant duelists are better. There is such a thing as too much smokes or trips, no such thing as too much info and cc.
4) Initiators are team and coordinated abilities. Teammates can follow up on the initiator utility much better then they can, and that’s when they’re strongest.
This means that when utilized at 100%, in pro play, they’re really strong. However, 99% of valorant games are not that. Duelists, the 1 role they can kinda replace (but being pushed away from by recent changes to skye and kayo for example), are more self reliant and played way more in normal games and competitive, where its 2 duelists 1 initiator 95% of the time, if not more duelists.

In summary: team oriented vision and cc work great in pro play. You only need 1 smoker and tripper. There’s still variety among them and other groups. Most gameplay is in normal games, where duelists are way more common, as theyre self reliant. Thus, not a problem.

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Junior Jaw より:

10月 31, 2022 5:09 pm

Be cool to have audio scanning initiator , Reyna flash variant initiator, util block zone duelist, magnet dragging duelist, map bending sentinel, hp transferring sentinel, and other random ideas each as a playable agent.

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Preston Song より:

10月 31, 2022 5:21 pm

i think the easiest way to reign in initiators as I agree they are the most impactful role (imo anyways) is that the E’s dont recharge by timer and are instead of assists/kills. I think duelist should be getting rewarded for kills so why are initiators not being rewarded for initiating? I think its quite dumb they get abilities back for doing nothing lol. depending on how strong/snowbally getting abilties back after assists or kills, could be put on a timer so u need to pass a time threshold as well as assist or kill threshold

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Michael Schwarz より:

10月 31, 2022 5:33 pm

quite easy fix. remove all abilities and give everyone a nade, a flash, a smoke and a molle 🤣

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lightrayz より:

10月 31, 2022 5:58 pm

I don’t think the issue with goats was that it was 3 tanks 3 supports, but rather that it lasted for a year, slowly becoming unfun to watch as the meta became stale

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Sjfarias96 より:

10月 31, 2022 6:27 pm

I think at the very least the sentinel and initiator cooldowns should be adjusted with Initiators being longer since those abilities are so much more impactful than sentinel utility. That way the initiators will be bought down just a bit while still being able to do their job. And the sentinels won’t fell so useless late into a round.

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Noah より:

10月 31, 2022 6:28 pm

Idk if you are reading your comments but I definitely do think that especially in a high elo or tournament match a diva drone on attacked is almost obligatory in most cases so I definitely do disagree with Sova being B tier.

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Kaia より:

10月 31, 2022 6:32 pm

I think part of it is just that in a teamgame where coordination is much higher, coordinated flashes and information agents get more utility than an agent who can get kills solo.

Like if you make changed so in pro play the meta is 2 duelists on some maps, I wonder if you wouldn’t tune things too far so initiators aren’t viable in ranked soloq.

The thing I’d like to try is maybe giving some flashing duelists (pheonix) and information duelists (raze boombot) some buffs and seeing if that doesn’t let them supplant one of the initiators.

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wrizu より:

10月 31, 2022 6:34 pm

Wait what are the fade nerds:(

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