Does Valorant Have It’s Own GOATS Problem │ VALORANTyoutubeまとめサイト

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コメント（142件）

Steve A より:

10月 31, 2022 9:19 pm

I think that initiators are one of the more interesting and fun to watch classes to dominate. Double sentinel meta would be a lot of stalling and lurking which doesn’t sound as nice to watch as double initiators. Double smokes – just look back to how much people hated the astra viper meta. Double dualist is potentially just execute a site every round and hope it works. Out of all of the options I think leaning slightly into double initiators isint bad at all.

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Gamist より:

10月 31, 2022 9:22 pm

I feel like it’s similar to goats in the sense of eliminating duelists or DPS, not cause of healing/sustain in goats. I think healing/sustain was big important, high APM happens if you’re alive, I’m a masters overwatch player myself. Valorant though? I think the sustain is swapped out for information, hence initiators.

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Nathan Holm より:

10月 31, 2022 9:27 pm

I think that for any other role, it could be a problem, however, initiators have such a wide range of abilities, especially flash/recon, which you usually want one of each, so double initiator makes sense. Plus their abilities are usually strong without feeling oppressive, and are very flexible agents that can be useful in a lot of situations. This may be an extreme take, but I believe that without initiators being the strongest, the game meta actually becomes super unfun. Lots of controllers isn’t fun, lots of duelists simplifies the game too much, and lots of sentinels makes the game extremely defender sided. For the game to remain interesting to watch, I think we want initiators to remain strong.

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AhviMa より:

10月 31, 2022 9:33 pm

I don’t know, but in my opinion the best and easiest way to do it, is just leave it as is. With time people have the ingenuity to find a counter to this double initiators. Sometimes games are fun when you leave them for a while. It’s hard playing a different meta every 2 weeks.

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Lolthehihi より:

10月 31, 2022 9:42 pm

In my opinion,all agents are b tier or higher except cypher.He falls in C

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Leonardo Quintão より:

10月 31, 2022 9:50 pm

I think the main reason the class is so strong is that all of the agents that dropped after launch were a response to the meta at the time and needed to be strong on baseline to make a dent on it. Skye was made to combat the OP meta at the time, Kayo was made to combat the ability spam the game had at that point, and Fade was made to give us an alternative to Sova, who was the most picked agent in the game at the time and considered a unanimous S tier. if you look at other classes and agents, the only other agent made to clearly impact the meta was Chamber, and we all know how that turned out.

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ConorMore より:

10月 31, 2022 9:59 pm

Why are u telling everyone about this meta wth, stop making my opponents better :/

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AngrySlime より:

10月 31, 2022 10:35 pm

It might be a good idea down the line to take some agents from initiator and move them to a new “recon” class. We’ll need more agents before then though, so that most roles have a similar number of agents 🙂

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Geneo より:

10月 31, 2022 10:35 pm

I came to Valorant from Overwatch which I’ve been playing since early 2017, and having played through the GOATS meta, I feel qualified to speak on this. The main issue with goats was that it edged an entire role out of the game. in 6v6 it was 3 tanks, 3 supports with no dps. I sincerely doubt this would happen to Valorant even if initiators do get used more often, but I’ll argue as an omen/skye main that double controller is almost if not just as good. naturally, having 4 classes helps prevent the issue that GOATS had, and having 2 of any class except for maybe deulist will be better then having 1. And in a game that is 5v5 with 4 roles, its only natural that a role will inevitably be the best fit for that empty spot. On top of that, initiators sort of serve a two-fold purpose. intel and flashes. in most 2-initiator comps, you see an initiator that flashes and one that recons. Rarely 2 of 1 category as that’d be redundant. as far as the health of the meta and enjoyment of the game, I think Valorant is in a good spot besides a handful of smaller issues and the longevity of its health is still well intact. – sincerely, a silver 1 player

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GimmeThatQuan より:

10月 31, 2022 10:39 pm

How many buffs does yoru need to have, in order for you all to bump him out of that low tier lol? I seriously think he’s in the same tier as jett, if not above.

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Rúnar Leó より:

10月 31, 2022 10:42 pm

My boy Chamber didn’t do anything wrong. Leave him be

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Max0929 より:

10月 31, 2022 10:43 pm

I think the biggest reason is cause yeah the initiator may be the most important role, but its also the easiest role to control in terms of power level.

We’ve already seen the consequences of what happens when you take a sentinel role like chamber, and a duelist role like Jett and bump them up to the same power levels as initiators. And we’re still seeing it now from chamber, his kit is too powerful and honestly a perfect representation of how unbalanced a game can get when you take a role like sentinel which is supposed to be this opposing wall put up against you to stop your team from success and chamber has become that 10x cause his ability to turn his defensive play style into an offensive killing machine is just crazy. And then when Jett dominated the meta, back when her kit was on the same S Tier value that initiators have, she wasn’t just something to get onto site. She was nearly unstoppable, which funny enough you almost always needed sova (A former S tier initiator) to counter. So I think that’s mainly why initiators are allowed to be so strong compared to every other role, because just like Jett who was an unstoppable force, and chamber who’s an immovable object. Initiator seems to be the only one that can be controlled where as other roles just get out of hand if you give them that kind of power.

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Gamist より:

10月 31, 2022 10:45 pm

Honestly, as an old overwatch player, I think it would be extremely interesting if a team could only pick one initiator. That feels like there’d be more creativity formed through that rule, if implemented today. I’m not saying we need a whole role queue or something like Overwatch, I’m just pointing out that it might not remove variety, but add to it, if variety is a priority. It’d also help duelists out if you were forced to play 2 of them (I don’t know why it wouldn’t be 2 duelists if role queue became a thing, it’s the most popular role by far for the playerbase)

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Malachy より:

10月 31, 2022 10:48 pm

I agree with the points made here. my take is: the issue is the initator class right now is way too broad to be sustainable and balanced, you’re basically trying to make an entire class that is the jack of all trades class, but to make sure they aren’t out competed by the other classes they overlap with they have to be significantly better in some regard otherwise they are useless, i.e. you make flashing initators worse than the flashing dualists no one picks them, and vice versa. (also the concept of wall hack reveal abilities which the majority of them get on a pretty low cool down is fundametally broken in the realm of a tac fps imo)

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Michael Dayao より:

10月 31, 2022 10:51 pm

I know you mentioned it in the beginning. But comparing this to GOATS is a reach lol

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WinGamingPT より:

10月 31, 2022 11:17 pm

I feel its not a problem.I feel Iniciators are “dominant” because in Valorant as in tac shooters information is important(as it is for example in Cs:GO and R6) and the iniciator class is the one that gives you information in the less risk free way. Sentinels give u information of flanks for example but its not something that can give u all the information of who is in a spike site or in some cases who is in the corner… Duelists also give u information… But it has a lot of risk in the sense that if a duelist like a jett dashes into site the jett player puts the team “at risk” in the sense that if the jett says: oh there is 3 on site and then dies or dies and gets traded with no following its a disavantage for the attackers… As for smokers, they sort of give u information if they spam your smokes and it could give u information… but its not a given…
As for other classes not having the same pickrates for all of their elements, like for example reyna and yoru not being picked as much in pro play I feel its a different problem and that is agent specific that riot needs to balance out in the way they see fit, like for example changing cypher or other weeker agents, like harbor seems to be…
Each role has its own place and I don’t think the iniciators being 2 in a 5 agent comp is a bad thing but just shows us how important information is… In ranked and even more in Pro play… I wouldn’t say: Oh I m gonna sacrifice a chance to get information with a iniciator for a smoker or duelist… And therefore the comps have a 2 or 3 iniciator comp… I don’t see the maps being designed in a way where u can sacrifice one of the classes with no visible drawbacks and therefore I feel when its not a problem… If somehow u could play a map without one of the other 3 classes without visible pros and cons…I could see it as a problem… So to conclude its a game design choice that is not a problem in my eyes

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meverynoob より:

10月 31, 2022 11:26 pm

When you have an insane amount of shit to shoot that isn’t an agent, it’s probably not very healthy for the game overall

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Mountain_pro より:

10月 31, 2022 11:26 pm

What’s wrong with recreating peek overwatch?

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Looking for a buffed, red-haired undercity girl より:

11月 1, 2022 12:30 am

I do agree that GOATS was very damaging to Overwatch, but it’s a very broad statement. The reason why GOATS killed Overwatch was because in GOATS vs GOATS comps, nothing was happening. 3 tanks and 3 supports, from a viewer’s perspective the game was insanely boring, with massive health pools and a ton of healing, so nothing was happening in matches until people got their ultimates. From a player’s perspective, I can say that the game was insanely boring. Dealing damage just feels like it doesn’t matter because what you just did is just going to be negated by 3 supports anyways. I agree that initiators are way too dominant in the meta right now, but I don’t believe that comparing them to GOATS is fair, mostly because players are still executing after dumping their abilities and getting kills and whatnot. Then again, if Riot doesn’t deal with this problem fast enough, it can spiral out of control insanely fast.

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Tsoruu より:

11月 1, 2022 12:42 am

This is caused by the fundamentals of initiators, that is, supports other people. Supporting other people becomes very very strong as:
1. Initiator can support their teammates at a relatively safe angle
2. Supported teammates can fully focus on gunfight
3. Higher rank, better communication/coordination, higher yield of double/triple initiators
This is supported by the most agents that are lower on the chart are relatively selfish agents.

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